I'm an active LDS member but I have a hard time dealing with a
$50million [correction, $240] building build to hold General conference in
when my next door neighbor is having a hard time putting food on his table.
I happened to slip and told a friend of mine about it and she just about
come unglued at me not believing that it was not inspired of the Lord.
Or that I didn't believe that Pres Gordon Hinckley was indeed a true prophet
because that building was built for a great purpose. Of course she put all
these words in my mouth before I could defend myself.
The only thing I can see that it was built for is to show the world how
great we are and for us to sit at the feet and worship our leaders. Of course
I got out her presence before I said this.
Am I wrong? and should I keep my mouth shut?
[Name Withheld]
From: <NephiOne@aol.com>
To: <davids_outcasts@listbot.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 08, 2000 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: [888] A question about the New The Building
David's Outcasts - http://www.GreaterThings.com/OpenForum/Davids_Outcasts/
In a message dated 04/07/2000 2:09:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,writes:
<< Am I wrong? And should I keep my mouth shut?>>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are right. I had a friend who lost his job because of defense budget
cutbacks and was being threatened by the county to have his water supply cut
off for non-payment of his water bill. He was looking for work and I drove him
to several job interviews my self. He gave in and finally went to our
Bishop for financial help. The Bishop would not give him any money and said
all the money was needed to built new Mini-Temples and the new Conference
Center. My friend had to go to the local Episcopal Church to get money to keep
from having the water shut off. They gave it to him without asking which
church he belonged to. All they needed was to hear from him that he was needy
and what the money was needed for. He told them it was to keep his water on,
for he has three preschool children and must have water. They gave it too him
and do not expect repayment. I drove him there so I know this happened.
He also had to go to a local Lutheran Church which went with him to the city
food bank and paid for two carts full of food, no repayment expected. Again I
drove him to get the groceries and saw the lady from the other church
pay for the groceries, so this is not hearsay.
It appears the other churches recall that tithes and offerings are meant
for the needy and the poor. The LDS church builds monuments to men.
I wonder who the Lord respects more.
Speak up, the Lord needs to have His church get back on track.
Frank
From: "John Doe" <gkimball@xmission.com>
To: "Sterling D. Allan" <sterlingda@greaterthings.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: LDS Conference Center -- Pride vs Joy
[spelling corrected]
If you didn't have this to complain about you would find something
else. Certainly the Church, though I have nothing to do with it, doesn't
go overboard on buildings. Almost every other religion in the world has
gone nuts in that regard while the church here in the valley has opted for
function and economy. I live next to the darn building you are referring
to. If this had been a Muslim shrine it would have been ten
times bigger. If it had been catholic it would have scared
you. You know when will we stop trying to deface those people
among us who are trying to practice their own faith in peace? Must
we be little brats all our lives? If I had my way I would
encourage them all to act peacefully and teach love. You
guys teach hatred with this very email. You need a good dose of
Jesus. Gandhi had the solution. He told the Hindu man who had killed the
Moslem child in retaliation for having the Muslims murder his own child
that there is a way out of hell. Find an orphan and raise him
Muslim. Now I give you the same advice. Go to a Mormon
Church and contribute to the poor through their organization instead of
criticizing from the peanut gallery. If you can't do that then you have
nothing of value to say to me.
Glenn Kimball
[see Glenn Kimball's website www.ancientmanuscripts.com]
From: "ksharp" <ksharp@gbasin.net>
To: "Sterling D. Allan" <sterlingda@greaterthings.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: LDS Conference Center -- Pride vs Joy
[spelling corrected]
The Great and Spacious Building. 1 Nephi 8; 1 Nephi 11; 1 Nephi 12
This treasurer Hinckley over the house hewed a sepulchre an habitation for
himself in a rock 125 thousand tons of Granite. Does this out do the
Vatican.
Isaiah 22:15 15 ¶ Thus saith the Lord GOD of hosts, Go, get thee unto this
treasurer, [even] unto Shebna, which [is] over the house, [and say], Isaiah
22:16 16 What hast thou here? and whom hast thou here, that thou hast hewed
thee out a sepulchre here, [as] he that heweth him out a sepulchre on high,
[and] that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock?
[See Kelly Sharp's index page]
From: "Max Skousen" <skousen@innercite.com>
To: "Sterling D. Allan" <sterlingda@greaterthings.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: LDS Conference Center -- Pride vs Joy
Dear Sterling:
Thanks for sending the article
on the Conference Center. As you know, we both share the view that the
modern Church is similar to the Church in the days of Christ. But I had a
thought on your concern that it was money miss spent, for well it might be,
but not necessarily.
Do you remember when Christ was being anointed with very expensive alabaster
box of very precious ointment and some objected that it could have been sold
and the money given to the poor. "But when his disciples saw it, they had
indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste? For this ointment might
have been sold for much, and given to the poor. When Jesus understood it, he
said unto them, Why trouble ye the woman? for she hath wrought a good work
upon me. For ye have the poor always with you, but me ye have not
always."
One of the things I observe about the Spirit is that it is anything but
frugal. For example, it creates a billion salmon eggs to create one salmon.
Since all things were contemplated by the Great Jehovah, I keep looking for
the value in everything. For example, evidently most of the Brethren, except
for Dallin Oaks, do not support the idea that the Church is under
condemnation. While I believe that it certainly is, at the same time I totally
support them believing the opposite. Why? Because their job is to build up a
great and mighty Church and that cannot be done with negativity. So "all
is well in Zion" is an appropriate stage for the Church to be going
through in the building stages. Personally, I believe the transformation of
the Church will come later when we are much more recognized throughout the
world. So, everything in its time and place.
The Church spends a great deal on the needy, genealogy research, temples and
missionary work, etc.. All of this is enhanced, in balance, by a beautiful
show. So if we are to have an eye single to the glory of God, and God's hand
is in all things, then we see his wisdom in what is and don't divide it up
into good and evil. On the Tree of Knowledge, we are supposed to do that, but
on the Tree of Life, "good" is flowing with joy in what is and
"evil" is resisting what is as either stupid, wicked, or vain. Once
we see that everything is set up to fail except the pure love of Christ, then
we recognize that everything is WASTE. So if everything is waste, then, at the
same time, nothing is waste, since everything becomes nothing.
I loved the article because the Center nourished their souls, the souls of the
needy. Sure, there is the element of pride in all joyous experiences, I
suppose, but another element of pride is standing to one side in the judgment
of condemnation. I would rather be thankful for ALL things, including the
Church, just the way it is, as well as Sterling D. Allan, just the way he is.
Thus, my letter is only a statement of gratitude for your generosity and some
thoughts on why I am not concerned about such extravagance.
With my love, Max Skousen
David Skousen
Re: LDS Conference Center - the deserved poor and the will of the brethren
[followed-up by]
Re: David Skousen Re: LDS Conference Center - clarification
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:12:36 -0700
From: "Mike & Lori Nielsen" <light@manti.com>
Subject: Re: [Greater_Things] LDS Conference Center -- Pride vs Joy
Sterling,
No disrespect to Sid's overview of his visit to the new Conference Center, but
I feel that the members of the Church are becoming as boastful about this
Conference Center as Pres. Hinckley is! I watched Pres. Hinckley this
weekend go on and on about how wonderful the conference center is and how the
verses in Isaiah relate to the conference center. Both Sid and Pres. Hinckley
are confused about that scripture...the word of God is supposed to come out of
Jerusalem...it's the LAW that comes out of Zion. Anyway, Pres. Hinckley
went so far as to imply that the Conference Center was the most grand building
of all the other historical buildings. Then he read the entire
dedicatory prayer from a script (which will be printed in the
newspapers). The Hosanna Shout was broadcast before the entire world to
see too. Sort of feels like the Tower of Rameumtom. I thought your
comment about grinding the faces of the poor in light of this grand new
expensive building was a good point. There are plenty of needy LDS. And
although a bigger place to watch conference may have been needed, the attitude
didn't have to get bigger too.
Regards,
Lori
[And for kicks?]
The real
symbolic message in the new Conference Center is the ceiling image of a
UFO landing inside the "great hall." (Gregory Relf)
